By Thursday before class, you must post once on the blog. In your response, you will be assessed by the same qualities of discussion that we generated in class (evidence, uptake, etc.). You must also post another time by Friday before class in response to the same question. No response should exceed 100 words.
Tuesday, October 6, 2009
Post #1 -- Group 1
Using Gardner’s Grendel, answer the following questions:
How do monsters function and deal with the dominant society? How do his values interact with those of the dominant society?
Grendel, pretends to despise everything about the dominant society, but secretly and desperately wishes he were one of them. “ And I, Grendel was the dark side...” (51)/ “‘Why can’t I have someone to talk...’” (53). Grendel struggles in accepting the fact that he cannot be part of their society.
so ur saying that grendel secretly and desperately wishes he were one of them. well I believe that at first grendel wishes he were one of them but after the talk with dragon, some things that the dragon had said made grendel change. After the talk with the dragon this is what grendel said, "i had become something, as if born again...i was Grendel, ruiner of meadhalls,Wrecker of kings"9(80). in this qoute, grandel stop caring about being one of those people and accepts that he is a monster, that should destroy anything that gets in his path.
Even if he is saying that he wants to wreak the kings and be a monster I think that he means that he only wants to be acknowledged by the people around him, even if it means that he must be a monster to them. As the dragon said, "You are mankind" (73). This initially annoys Grendel however after explaining the dragon than shows Grendel that by being a monster the humans can fight him, get better and be smarter. Grendel accepts this and becomes as the dragon says a monster to be acknowledged by the people around him. Sorry I couldn't post before my Internet was down.
I agree with Jackson Lucero. I doubt Grendel wants to actually be a human, but rather something that the humans fear, like a monster. For example, when Grendel is thinking about the humans, he tells us “I could finish them off in a single night, pull down the great carved beams … yet I hold back. I am hardly blind to this absurdity. Form is function. What will we call the Hrothgar-Wrecker when Hrothgar has been wrecked?” (91). Grendel tells us that he doesn’t kill all of the humans because they seem to recognize him as a monster and more importantly, give him a great reputation. Without them, this monster reputation would disappear.
I forgot that these comments are suppose to have less than 150 words, so pretend I replaced my first comment with this one:
I believe Grendel challenges the values of the society, values like revenge.When we look at Unferth's attempts to slay Grendel, Grendel tells us “He lives on, bitter, feebly challenging my midnight raids from time to time (three times this summer), crazy with shame that he alone is always spared …” (90). Unferth is like any other soldier in the society because he always tries to “feebly,” or forcelessly challenge the monster Grendel, but ends up losing in the end. The only difference between Unferth and the other soldiers is that he is always spared, bringing him more shame. Anyways, since Grendel does not let any of the Anglo-Saxon soldiers defeat him and achieve vengeance, he is holding that value up by preventing it from happening. Any monster that holds up a value is challenging it, like Grendel.
So Hasan are you saying that Grendel supports the values of Anglo-Saxon glory and vengeance? By being what they fight he is becoming what they value or that they value it because of him? That would imply that they value struggle. When Grendel says, "And so begins the twelfth year of my idiotic war" (5). Grendel and the Anglo-Saxons have been fighting for 12 years and Grendel has been winning this entire time. The fact that they continue to struggle after all this time it seems to show their mass determination to keep fighting until they win or die out.
I think a lot of good points have been stressed here. Although it doesn't necessarily correlate to the question-Jackson, when Grendel says "And so begins the twelfth year of my idiotic war"(5), do you think this could be speaking to Grendel's internal war, a war with his ideas, rather than a physical war? Either way, it might suggest that Grendel doesn't know how to deal with the dominant society-he struggles to find a proper way to deal with the anglo-saxons and this causes him anguish. His values are uncertain-"...I tried to think whether or not I was afraid of the strangers, and the thought made no sense."(156) I think Grendel's discontentment through being uncertain of so many things causes him to become violent.
yeh geena i kind of agree to what ur saying abt Grendel's discontentment through being uncertain of so many things causes him to become violent. well don't u guys think that the dragon was the one who kind of made him realizaze that he would never fit into society,which causes grendel to be violent.
Nikki, I agree that the dragon made Grendel realize he would never fit in their society. “futility, doom, became the smell of the air…[he] had put a charm on me: no weapon could cut me…they were powerless” (75-76). Grendel no longer believed there was a meaning in life. Like Nikki said, Grendel became violent because now there was nothing was holding him back from killing people. Killing just became a simple act, a distraction.
I agree that Grendel's killing may have simply been a distraction for him, but I would interpret the the quote "futility, doom, became the smell of the air...(he) had put a charm on me: no weapon could cut me...they were powerless" (75-76). This may suggest that the dragon has shown Grendel that he is of a different class than the humans-perhaps not of a higher or lower class, but different-and that because of this separation Grendel is unable to feel the pain brought on to him by those people; people cannot affect Grendel's psyche because he is of a different element. This has now become the way Grendel deals with the dominant society-by separating himself.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteGrendel, pretends to despise everything about the dominant society, but secretly and desperately wishes he were one of them. “ And I, Grendel was the dark side...” (51)/ “‘Why can’t I have someone to talk...’” (53). Grendel struggles in accepting the fact that he cannot be part of their society.
ReplyDeleteso ur saying that grendel secretly and desperately wishes he were one of them. well I believe that at first grendel wishes he were one of them but after the talk with dragon, some things that the dragon had said made grendel change. After the talk with the dragon this is what grendel said, "i had become something, as if born again...i was Grendel, ruiner of meadhalls,Wrecker of kings"9(80). in this qoute, grandel stop caring about being one of those people and accepts that he is a monster, that should destroy anything that gets in his path.
ReplyDeleteEven if he is saying that he wants to wreak the kings and be a monster I think that he means that he only wants to be acknowledged by the people around him, even if it means that he must be a monster to them. As the dragon said, "You are mankind" (73). This initially annoys Grendel however after explaining the dragon than shows Grendel that by being a monster the humans can fight him, get better and be smarter. Grendel accepts this and becomes as the dragon says a monster to be acknowledged by the people around him.
ReplyDeleteSorry I couldn't post before my Internet was down.
I agree with Jackson Lucero. I doubt Grendel wants to actually be a human, but rather something that the humans fear, like a monster. For example, when Grendel is thinking about the humans, he tells us “I could finish them off in a single night, pull down the great carved beams … yet I hold back. I am hardly blind to this absurdity. Form is function. What will we call the Hrothgar-Wrecker when Hrothgar has been wrecked?” (91). Grendel tells us that he doesn’t kill all of the humans because they seem to recognize him as a monster and more importantly, give him a great reputation. Without them, this monster reputation would disappear.
ReplyDeleteI forgot that these comments are suppose to have less than 150 words, so pretend I replaced my first comment with this one:
ReplyDeleteI believe Grendel challenges the values of the society, values like revenge.When we look at Unferth's attempts to slay Grendel, Grendel tells us “He lives on, bitter, feebly challenging my midnight raids from time to time (three times this summer), crazy with shame that he alone is always spared …” (90). Unferth is like any other soldier in the society because he always tries to “feebly,” or forcelessly challenge the monster Grendel, but ends up losing in the end. The only difference between Unferth and the other soldiers is that he is always spared, bringing him more shame. Anyways, since Grendel does not let any of the Anglo-Saxon soldiers defeat him and achieve vengeance, he is holding that value up by preventing it from happening. Any monster that holds up a value is challenging it, like Grendel.
So Hasan are you saying that Grendel supports the values of Anglo-Saxon glory and vengeance? By being what they fight he is becoming what they value or that they value it because of him? That would imply that they value struggle. When Grendel says, "And so begins the twelfth year of my idiotic war" (5). Grendel and the Anglo-Saxons have been fighting for 12 years and Grendel has been winning this entire time. The fact that they continue to struggle after all this time it seems to show their mass determination to keep fighting until they win or die out.
ReplyDeleteI think a lot of good points have been stressed here. Although it doesn't necessarily correlate to the question-Jackson, when Grendel says "And so begins the twelfth year of my idiotic war"(5), do you think this could be speaking to Grendel's internal war, a war with his ideas, rather than a physical war? Either way, it might suggest that Grendel doesn't know how to deal with the dominant society-he struggles to find a proper way to deal with the anglo-saxons and this causes him anguish. His values are uncertain-"...I tried to think whether or not I was afraid of the strangers, and the thought made no sense."(156) I think Grendel's discontentment through being uncertain of so many things causes him to become violent.
ReplyDeleteyeh geena i kind of agree to what ur saying abt Grendel's discontentment through being uncertain of so many things causes him to become violent.
ReplyDeletewell don't u guys think that the dragon was the one who kind of made him realizaze that he would never fit into society,which causes grendel to be violent.
Nikki, I agree that the dragon made Grendel realize he would never fit in their society. “futility, doom, became the smell of the air…[he] had put a charm on me: no weapon could cut me…they were powerless” (75-76). Grendel no longer believed there was a meaning in life. Like Nikki said, Grendel became violent because now there was nothing was holding him back from killing people. Killing just became a simple act, a distraction.
ReplyDeleteI agree that Grendel's killing may have simply been a distraction for him, but I would interpret the the quote "futility, doom, became the smell of the air...(he) had put a charm on me: no weapon could cut me...they were powerless" (75-76). This may suggest that the dragon has shown Grendel that he is of a different class than the humans-perhaps not of a higher or lower class, but different-and that because of this separation Grendel is unable to feel the pain brought on to him by those people; people cannot affect Grendel's psyche because he is of a different element. This has now become the way Grendel deals with the dominant society-by separating himself.
ReplyDelete