By Thursday before class, you must post once on the blog. In your response, you will be assessed by the same qualities of discussion that we generated in class (evidence, uptake, etc.). You must also post another time by Friday before class in response to the same question. No response should exceed 100 words.
Tuesday, October 6, 2009
Post #1 -- Group 2
Using Gardner’s Grendel, answer the following questions:
How do monsters function and deal with the dominant society? How do his values interact with those of the dominant society?
Monsters deal with society by attempting to undermine it by denying the society its chance to fulfill its values. “He lives on,… ,crazy with shame… So much for heroism” (Gardener 90). Grendel, understanding Unferth and societies need for glory and to be the hero, denies him by sparing him.
An example of Grendel dealing with the dominant society is when he was stuck in tree trunks around page 26. He tried scaring the men away, and thought that would be the best way to get rid of them and keep himself safe. “I’d never howled more loudly…” (27). Grendel knew that the men feared him, and valued that fact. Grendel feels superior when he is feared by others.
As Andrew stated, Monsters attempt to lessen the value of society. Unferth came to Grendel and says "…you said. Implying what I've made of myself is mere fairytale stuff" (87). Grendel diminishes the value of Unferth abiding by society and gaining glory. He rejects Unferth's values, voicing his opposing values.
I agree. I believe Grendel attempts to lessen the value of society, however, he is also deeply affected by their values. When Grendel is listening to the shaper he starts to believe what he is saying. After the shaper explained that Grendel and his creatures were "the terrible race God cursed" (Gardner 51), Grendel says, "I believed him. Such was the power of the Shaper's harp!...letting tears down my nose..." (Gardner 51). Grendel is deeply moved by the shaper's stories.
I agree with Rayhana. On page 109, when Grendel attacks the meadhall and is debating to himself to kill the queen he feels empowered by the fear he has created in the Scyldings and Hemlings. Grendel likes that he can choose his kill, because it gives him more freedom which empowers his fierceness and his superiority.
Jack, I think that Grendel is shaped by the values depicted by the shaper, but not in the way that your quote explained it. After listening to the shaper, two days later Grendel monologues, “the Harper’s lure drew my mind away to hopeful dreams, the dark of what was and always was reached out and snatched my feet” (54). The Shapers values challenge the brute truth inside Grendel, thus shaping the values of Grendel.
Andrew, although the Shaper may "challenge the brute truth inside Grendel", couldn't one say that Grendel is still, at one point, deeply affected emotionally by the Shaper's words? Also, I think that we might be ignoring/avoiding the second question. Which is "how do Grendel's values interact with those of the dominant society?" Aren't Grendel's values somewhat related to those of Anglo-Saxon society? I mean, I'm kind of playing devil's advocate here, but couldn't they both have values that are based on impulse? (Grendel killing because of food and humans retaliating because of the impulse of glory and glorification in society.)
Jack, at what point do the values of society become driven by emotion rather than the automatic responses taught by society? Would that emotion lead to impulsive thoughts and actions? I'm not so sure the society is impulsive. Sure, they will do whatever it takes to keep themselves safe, as will he, but does that mean their societies are common, rather than simple animal instinct?
Monsters deal with society by attempting to undermine it by denying the society its chance to fulfill its values. “He lives on,… ,crazy with shame… So much for heroism” (Gardener 90). Grendel, understanding Unferth and societies need for glory and to be the hero, denies him by sparing him.
ReplyDeleteAn example of Grendel dealing with the dominant society is when he was stuck in tree trunks around page 26. He tried scaring the men away, and thought that would be the best way to get rid of them and keep himself safe. “I’d never howled more loudly…” (27). Grendel knew that the men feared him, and valued that fact. Grendel feels superior when he is feared by others.
ReplyDeleteAs Andrew stated, Monsters attempt to lessen the value of society. Unferth came to Grendel and says "…you said. Implying what I've made of myself is mere fairytale stuff" (87). Grendel diminishes the value of Unferth abiding by society and gaining glory. He rejects Unferth's values, voicing his opposing values.
ReplyDeleteI agree. I believe Grendel attempts to lessen the value of society, however, he is also deeply affected by their values. When Grendel is listening to the shaper he starts to believe what he is saying. After the shaper explained that Grendel and his creatures were "the terrible race God cursed" (Gardner 51), Grendel says, "I believed him. Such was the power of the Shaper's harp!...letting tears down my nose..." (Gardner 51). Grendel is deeply moved by the shaper's stories.
ReplyDelete(Yes, I know this is late. Sorry about that.)
I agree with Rayhana. On page 109, when Grendel attacks the meadhall and is debating to himself to kill the queen he feels empowered by the fear he has created in the Scyldings and Hemlings. Grendel likes that he can choose his kill, because it gives him more freedom which empowers his fierceness and his superiority.
ReplyDeleteJack, I think that Grendel is shaped by the values depicted by the shaper, but not in the way that your quote explained it. After listening to the shaper, two days later Grendel monologues, “the Harper’s lure drew my mind away to hopeful dreams, the dark of what was and always was reached out and snatched my feet” (54). The Shapers values challenge the brute truth inside Grendel, thus shaping the values of Grendel.
ReplyDeleteAndrew, although the Shaper may "challenge the brute truth inside Grendel", couldn't one say that Grendel is still, at one point, deeply affected emotionally by the Shaper's words? Also, I think that we might be ignoring/avoiding the second question. Which is "how do Grendel's values interact with those of the dominant society?" Aren't Grendel's values somewhat related to those of Anglo-Saxon society? I mean, I'm kind of playing devil's advocate here, but couldn't they both have values that are based on impulse? (Grendel killing because of food and humans retaliating because of the impulse of glory and glorification in society.)
ReplyDeleteJack, at what point do the values of society become driven by emotion rather than the automatic responses taught by society? Would that emotion lead to impulsive thoughts and actions? I'm not so sure the society is impulsive. Sure, they will do whatever it takes to keep themselves safe, as will he, but does that mean their societies are common, rather than simple animal instinct?
ReplyDelete