By Thursday before class, you must post once on the blog. In your response, you will be assessed by the same qualities of discussion that we generated in class (evidence, uptake, etc.). You must also post another time by Friday before class in response to the same question. No response should exceed 100 words.
Wednesday, October 14, 2009
Post #2 -- Group 3
Using evidence from both texts, answer the following questions:
To what extent is the monster/hero responsible for his exile? How do his values contribute to his exile?
Grendel is completely repsponsible for his exile because he was rejected by the society and now resents it. Grendel now does whatever he can to oppose King Hrothgar's society as shown when Grendel goes to the meadhall after talking to the dragon and he narrates, "As if casualy, in plain sight of them all, I bit his head off"(Garnder 79). The guard that Grendel killed has spared his life, but Grendel felt the need to repel society and "get back" at them for rejecting him in the first place.
For the most part I agree with Alexandra when she mentions that Grendel's horrific actions were unnecessary and can be viewed as a reason for his exile. However, we cannot forget that Grendel from the begging was already located in exile even before he was born, he mentions "I used to ask her.’Why are we here?' She trembles at my words. Her fat lips shake. 'Don't ask!' her wiggling claws implore... It must be some terrible secret " (11).His mother was placed in this type of exile before he was born so in fact it was not his actions but his mother’s since he was only born into exile. Even the Danes mention that God had banished Grendel due to his relation to the Cain clan, which they say “He dwelt for a time in misery among the banished monsters, Cain’s clan, whom the Creator had outlawed and condemned as outcasts” (9, lines 104-106). This again shows that it was not necessary Grendel’s fault that God had punished him with exile, but due to a factor which he could control, he had some blood related to the Cain clan, which was punished by being exiled. Grendel later on acts in ways which one can say that were reasons for his exile, however he was born into this exile and thus he acted the way he did.
I think that Grendel is both responsible and not responsible for his exile. I agree that by slaughtering humans, he is responsible but part of the reason he is exiled is that he is physically different. He has no control over his appearances and so he cannot be responsible for them. Grendel continues to exile himself by believing his values that he is superior and stronger than humans, he thinks “...The men who fought were nothing to me, except of course that they talked in something akin to my language, which meant that we were, incredibly, related. I was sickened,...”(36) Believing this, he continues to eat men which puts him into deeper exile.
I have to disagree somewhat with Alexandra and I support more what Pawel is saying. Grendel isn't responsible for his exile at first. It isn't his choice to be born what he is. Though he later relizes that he cannot be anything but an outcast and embraces being a monster, pushing himself further from anglo Saxon society. In Beowulf they don't regard him as anything close to human because of his raids and violent nature. "So Grendel waged his lonley war inflicting cruelties on the people atrocious hurt" (13 ln 164-166). Grendel is just a evil beast to them, but he wasn't always like that. "I sank to my kness crying. 'Friend! Friend!' they haced at me, yipping like dogs" (52). Grendel enter the meadhall and is trying to tell them he is a friend, but they don't understand him because they only see him as a monster, the monster he later becomes because he can't fit in with the people. But it is not an exhile of his choosing, its simply all there is for him.
Nick I understand the weight of being rejected due to his physical appearance, which he in truth was not able to change.However I don't agree with the statement that he ultimately wants to become exiled from the society voluntary since he was seen from time and time again to be curious of the humans which tends to drawn him to the mead hall, "I watched it, season after season. Sometimes I watched from the high cliff wall, where I could look out and see all the mead hall lights on the various hills across the country side..." (37)Grendel's increasingly stronger interests in humans points to him wanting acceptation from society, which is all undermined by factors that he is unable to control.
I agree with Aileen that Grendel isn't seen as anything close to a human. They refer to him as “a fiend out of hell.”(pg. 9 line-100) They see him as pure evil. I also agree that later in the story he becomes the monster that society views him as. After he talks with the dragon, his whole view of himself changes and he believes that he is changing. “I had become something, as if born again.” (pg 80 Gardner)
I see what Pawel and Aileen's point that Grendel can't control the fact that he's in exile. However, Grendel does nothing to help him be accepted into the Anglo-Saxon society. Grendel continues to torture King Hrothgar's Danes, and gives himself the reputation of a monster. After Grendel spoke with the dragon, he changes drastically and he comments, "Now, invunerable, I was as solitary as one live tree in a vast landscape" (Gardner 76). Grendel realizes that he is more powerful than the humans. By realizing this, Grendl has become invincible and constantly attacks the meadhall for no apparent reason. If Grendel truly wanted to be accepted into their society, he wouldn't attack the Danes just to spite them, he would have made more of an effort to connect with them and be understood by them. Instead, Grendel soldifies his for himself by constanly installing fear into the Danes.
Grendel is completely repsponsible for his exile because he was rejected by the society and now resents it. Grendel now does whatever he can to oppose King Hrothgar's society as shown when Grendel goes to the meadhall after talking to the dragon and he narrates, "As if casualy, in plain sight of them all, I bit his head off"(Garnder 79). The guard that Grendel killed has spared his life, but Grendel felt the need to repel society and "get back" at them for rejecting him in the first place.
ReplyDeleteFor the most part I agree with Alexandra when she mentions that Grendel's horrific actions were unnecessary and can be viewed as a reason for his exile. However, we cannot forget that Grendel from the begging was already located in exile even before he was born, he mentions "I used to ask her.’Why are we here?' She trembles at my words. Her fat lips shake. 'Don't ask!' her wiggling claws implore... It must be some terrible secret " (11).His mother was placed in this type of exile before he was born so in fact it was not his actions but his mother’s since he was only born into exile. Even the Danes mention that God had banished Grendel due to his relation to the Cain clan, which they say “He dwelt for a time in misery among the banished monsters, Cain’s clan, whom the Creator had outlawed and condemned as outcasts” (9, lines 104-106). This again shows that it was not necessary Grendel’s fault that God had punished him with exile, but due to a factor which he could control, he had some blood related to the Cain clan, which was punished by being exiled. Grendel later on acts in ways which one can say that were reasons for his exile, however he was born into this exile and thus he acted the way he did.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteAlso want to add something, it depends all depends on the story, however in Grendel's case, he was somewhat powerless over his being in exile.
ReplyDeleteI think that Grendel is both responsible and not responsible for his exile. I agree that by slaughtering humans, he is responsible but part of the reason he is exiled is that he is physically different. He has no control over his appearances and so he cannot be responsible for them. Grendel continues to exile himself by believing his values that he is superior and stronger than humans, he thinks “...The men who fought were nothing to me, except of course that they talked in something akin to my language, which meant that we were, incredibly, related. I was sickened,...”(36) Believing this, he continues to eat men which puts him into deeper exile.
ReplyDeleteI have to disagree somewhat with Alexandra and I support more what Pawel is saying. Grendel isn't responsible for his exile at first. It isn't his choice to be born what he is. Though he later relizes that he cannot be anything but an outcast and embraces being a monster, pushing himself further from anglo Saxon society. In Beowulf they don't regard him as anything close to human because of his raids and violent nature. "So Grendel waged his lonley war inflicting cruelties on the people atrocious hurt" (13 ln 164-166). Grendel is just a evil beast to them, but he wasn't always like that. "I sank to my kness crying. 'Friend! Friend!' they haced at me, yipping like dogs" (52). Grendel enter the meadhall and is trying to tell them he is a friend, but they don't understand him because they only see him as a monster, the monster he later becomes because he can't fit in with the people. But it is not an exhile of his choosing, its simply all there is for him.
ReplyDeleteNick I understand the weight of being rejected due to his physical appearance, which he in truth was not able to change.However I don't agree with the statement that he ultimately wants to become exiled from the society voluntary since he was seen from time and time again to be curious of the humans which tends to drawn him to the mead hall, "I watched it, season after season. Sometimes I watched from the high cliff wall, where I could look out and see all the mead hall lights on the various hills across the country side..." (37)Grendel's increasingly stronger interests in humans points to him wanting acceptation from society, which is all undermined by factors that he is unable to control.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Aileen that Grendel isn't seen as anything close to a human. They refer to him as “a fiend out of hell.”(pg. 9 line-100) They see him as pure evil. I also agree that later in the story he becomes the monster that society views him as. After he talks with the dragon, his whole view of himself changes and he believes that he is changing. “I had become something, as if born again.” (pg 80 Gardner)
ReplyDeleteI see what Pawel and Aileen's point that Grendel can't control the fact that he's in exile. However, Grendel does nothing to help him be accepted into the Anglo-Saxon society. Grendel continues to torture King Hrothgar's Danes, and gives himself the reputation of a monster. After Grendel spoke with the dragon, he changes drastically and he comments, "Now, invunerable, I was as solitary as one live tree in a vast landscape" (Gardner 76). Grendel realizes that he is more powerful than the humans. By realizing this, Grendl has become invincible and constantly attacks the meadhall for no apparent reason. If Grendel truly wanted to be accepted into their society, he wouldn't attack the Danes just to spite them, he would have made more of an effort to connect with them and be understood by them. Instead, Grendel soldifies his for himself by constanly installing fear into the Danes.
ReplyDelete