By Thursday before class, you must post once on the blog. In your response, you will be assessed by the same qualities of discussion that we generated in class (evidence, uptake, etc.). You must also post another time by Friday before class in response to the same question. No response should exceed 100 words.
Wednesday, October 14, 2009
Post #2 -- Group 2
Using evidence from both texts, answer the following questions:
To what extent is the monster/hero responsible for his exile? How do his values contribute to his exile?
I dont think that the monster/hero is responsible for his exile, i think that it's the society that determines whether a person/monster hero or not is exiled. The society can view an act as good or bad which leads to praise or desertion. This is how heroes are told apart from monsters. Society is the determining factor.
I agree with Adam. The monster isn't responsible for his exile. The superior race causes the monster to live away from them. When Grendel is seen by humans they call him, "Some beastlike fungus" (24 Gardner). The humans look down upon Grendel. In Beowulf, the humans have lots of pride in themselves and look down upon inferior beings.
Adam and Rayhana, monsters are responsible for their exile. In the very beginning of Grendel, before society does anything to him, he narrates, “I killed the old woman” (7). Before becoming alienated from society, Grendel kills a woman to satisfy his value of destruction, thus alienating him from society.
I also agree with Adam and Rayhana. Society's religious expectations and interpretations had led them to fear Grendel because he was an outcast, and exile what they fear. "he had dwelt for a time in misery among the banished monsters, Cain's clan, whom the Creator had outlawed and condemned as outcasts" (Heaney 105-107). Society viewed God as the deciding factor on how to behave in situations and view things, and from their learnings, God condemned such monsters.
I agree with Andrew. I think that monsters or heroes are mostly responsible for their own exile. An example of a hero being responsible comes when Wiglaf is having an internal monologue in the caverns. He thinks to himself, "I would rather my body were robed in the same burning blaze as my gold-giver's body than go back home bearing arms" (Heaney 2651-2653). A hero like Wiglaf put pressure on himself because he believed society would exile him otherwise.
Andrew and Jack, Grendel wanted to be apart of anglo-saxon society but they rejected him. pg. 52 in Grendel. Grendel says "I sank to my knees, crying,'Friend! Friend!'" Society rejects him so in turn, he goes against them. pg 49 l.711 the shaper says, "God-cursed Grendel came greedilly loping." They rejected him without showing him compassion, and that's why Grendel fights back.
Adam, are you saying that society rejectsGrendel for no reason? i believe that Grendel is rejected for his own atrocious actions. line 1054 of Beowulf said "Grendel had cruelly killed..he would kill more." the reason that the people reject him is because "he started it" pg 30 of Grendel"Hrothgar was old... i settled my soul on destroying him." this passage shows Grendel destructive nature which is the source of his exile form Anglo Saxon society. is actions led to him not being accepted.
PS. i just got this thing to work. My deepest apologies for not being in this discussion from the beginning
I again agree with Adam in saying that it really wasn't his fault. In Beowulf, upon introducing Grendel, he is referred to as "the God-cursed brute" (Heaney 121). He is introduced in Grendel also as a demon, yet his exile is faultless. Grendel says "Ah, sad one, poor old freak!' I cry and hug myself, and laugh, letting out salt tears" (Gardener 6). He did not ask to be created in such a way but he was, and society cannot accept this.
Shweta, isn't Grendel considered as "the God-cursed brute" (Heaney 121) because he has attacked Heorot? His actions were not included in BEOWULF, however, using Andrew's quote, Grendel says, "I killed the old woman" (Gardner 7). Grendel is exiled and labeled as "the God-cursed brute" because of his actions.
Shweta, I think that Grendel actually knows that he started it, and that he doesn't really care. "My brains raging at the sickness I can observe in myself as objectively as might a mind ten centuries away" (Gardener 11). He hates his “sickness” yet he still continues his blood baths.
I dont think that the monster/hero is responsible for his exile, i think that it's the society that determines whether a person/monster hero or not is exiled. The society can view an act as good or bad which leads to praise or desertion. This is how heroes are told apart from monsters. Society is the determining factor.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Adam. The monster isn't responsible for his exile. The superior race causes the monster to live away from them. When Grendel is seen by humans they call him, "Some beastlike fungus" (24 Gardner). The humans look down upon Grendel. In Beowulf, the humans have lots of pride in themselves and look down upon inferior beings.
ReplyDeleteAdam and Rayhana, monsters are responsible for their exile. In the very beginning of Grendel, before society does anything to him, he narrates, “I killed the old woman” (7). Before becoming alienated from society, Grendel kills a woman to satisfy his value of destruction, thus alienating him from society.
ReplyDeleteI also agree with Adam and Rayhana. Society's religious expectations and interpretations had led them to fear Grendel because he was an outcast, and exile what they fear. "he had dwelt for a time in misery among the banished monsters, Cain's clan, whom the Creator had outlawed and condemned as outcasts" (Heaney 105-107). Society viewed God as the deciding factor on how to behave in situations and view things, and from their learnings, God condemned such monsters.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Andrew. I think that monsters or heroes are mostly responsible for their own exile. An example of a hero being responsible comes when Wiglaf is having an internal monologue in the caverns. He thinks to himself, "I would rather my body were robed in the same burning blaze as my gold-giver's body than go back home bearing arms" (Heaney 2651-2653). A hero like Wiglaf put pressure on himself because he believed society would exile him otherwise.
ReplyDeleteAndrew and Jack, Grendel wanted to be apart of anglo-saxon society but they rejected him. pg. 52 in Grendel. Grendel says "I sank to my knees, crying,'Friend! Friend!'" Society rejects him so in turn, he goes against them. pg 49 l.711 the shaper says, "God-cursed Grendel came greedilly loping." They rejected him without showing him compassion, and that's why Grendel fights back.
ReplyDeleteAdam, are you saying that society rejectsGrendel for no reason? i believe that Grendel is rejected for his own atrocious actions. line 1054 of Beowulf said "Grendel had cruelly killed..he would kill more." the reason that the people reject him is because "he started it" pg 30 of Grendel"Hrothgar was old... i settled my soul on destroying him." this passage shows Grendel destructive nature which is the source of his exile form Anglo Saxon society. is actions led to him not being accepted.
ReplyDeletePS. i just got this thing to work. My deepest apologies for not being in this discussion
from the beginning
I again agree with Adam in saying that it really wasn't his fault. In Beowulf, upon introducing Grendel, he is referred to as "the God-cursed brute" (Heaney 121). He is introduced in Grendel also as a demon, yet his exile is faultless. Grendel says "Ah, sad one, poor old freak!' I cry and hug myself, and laugh, letting out salt tears" (Gardener 6). He did not ask to be created in such a way but he was, and society cannot accept this.
ReplyDeleteShweta, isn't Grendel considered as "the God-cursed brute" (Heaney 121) because he has attacked Heorot? His actions were not included in BEOWULF, however, using Andrew's quote, Grendel says, "I killed the old woman" (Gardner 7). Grendel is exiled and labeled as "the God-cursed brute" because of his actions.
ReplyDeleteShweta, I think that Grendel actually knows that he started it, and that he doesn't really care. "My brains raging at the sickness I can observe in myself as objectively as might a mind ten centuries away" (Gardener 11). He hates his “sickness” yet he still continues his blood baths.
ReplyDelete